What's Design Thinking? What to be as a Designist?

Motoo Nakanishi, a design consultant, and Taihei Noda of JBIG talked about "management, brand and design". [Part XNUMX]

P.G.C.D.In 2010, when JAPAN was born, the representative, Taihei Noda, studied under Motoo Nakanishi, a leading figure in Japanese-style CI (corporate identity).Since then, the management strategy design learned from Mr. NakanishiP.G.C.D.It supports the foundation of JAPAN and has a great influence on its activities as a company.
Mr. Nakanishi and Noda, who reunited for the first time in about 10 years on the themes of "design thinking in a company" and "what should be as a designer", talked about each other's experiences and thoughts, and it was a very profound dialogue, so the first part・ We will deliver the second part twice.This time is the second part.

Design consultant
Representative of Motoo Nakanishi Office << PAOS >>

Motoo Nakanishi

Born in Kobe.After working at Kuwasawa Design School, graduated from Waseda University Faculty of Letters, Department of Fine Arts.Dropped out of the graduate school of arts.
● 1962 While attending university, announced "Proposal for establishing Waseda University School of Design" that a base for design education should be established at a university.
● 1964 Co-authored Japan's first management strategy design book "Design Policy / Formation of Corporate Image" with Ryuichi Hamaguchi.After that, he edited about 50 volumes.
● 1968 Established PAOS Co., Ltd.Through repeated research and practice on the theme of establishing a design theory understood by business owners and developing methods, he has worked on CI, brand & business strategy design of about 100 companies, and has released many success stories and representative cases to the world.
● 1969-2019 Nishi-Shinjuku skyscraper street fixed point shooting. The record of 50 times in 228 years is the longest in the world.
● Established PAOS NewYork in 1980, PAOS Boston in 1985, PAOS Beijing in 1995 (Hakuokuji Beijing Corporate Design Co., Ltd.), and PAOS Shanghai (Shanghai Paosnet Image Design Co., Ltd.) in 1997.
● April 1997 PAOS was taken up as an example in the business school textbooks of Harvard University and Stanford University, and was invited to a commemorative lecture.
● 1998-2000 As the G Mark (Good Design Award) system was privatized from the sponsorship of the Ministry of International Trade and Industry (currently the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry), he promoted system reform as the chairman of the general examination committee.
● 2004-2008 Visiting Professor, Institute of Strategic Design, Waseda University. 2006-2010 Participated in the university's public relations office.
● 2010-2018 New Business School "STRAMD (Strategic Management Design Human Resource Development Course)" presided over (Tokyo / Osaka).
● October 2015-Tokyo 10 Olympic and Paralympic Emblem Selection Committee.
● 2017 Chairman of the symbol mark examination committee for the Japanese culture legacy creation program “beyond 2020”.
● 2018 Professor Emeritus of Tung Fang Design Institute, Taiwan.

Representative Director and CEO of JBI GROUP (JBIG) Co., Ltd.

Taihei Noda

Born in Fukuoka Prefecture in 1979. In 2010P.G.C.D. JAPAN is established. Develop and sell skin care and scalp care products to increase the number of people who change their age into beauty. In 2019, JBI GROUP, a holding company, was established. Under the corporate philosophy "Pay forward", we will create sustainable products and businesses with the mission of "increase the number of people who make the world happy" and contribute to society and the future.

"Optimal solution" is important in society

Achieve the optimal solution by refining your sensibilities

(I.e. I remember the words that the teacher said before, "Managers should choose good or bad, not like or dislike."It is still a guideline for reviewing the business.

中西 Actually, it's best to choose by connecting "like" and "good" (laughs).However, when you think about what is really good for your company or product, what you like is not always the correct answer.No, I think it's better to say "optimal solution" instead of correct answer.I think it will be very important to improve your sensibilities in order to select the optimal solution.

(I.e. The teacher is still working on various designs.Did the world you see differ from the past and the present, or did you change what you think is important?

中西 After all, I think what is the "optimal solution" at that time?However, the optimal solution will differ depending on the background of the times and what is required of each company / business. Sometimes, "the correct answer is not always the optimal answer."

(I.e. The correct answer is not always the optimal solution.So that's it.

中西 There is only one correct answer, but the optimal solution can have a range.

(I.e. In that sense, the "correct answer" changes with the times, but does the "optimal solution" not change much?

中西 I think the "optimal solution" will change.For example, in an era with high income and an era with low income, it makes a difference depending on how much disposable income you have.

Designists will change the world in the future

It is the designer who creates the "different" world

(I.e. Before I took STRAMD, I didn't make things in an era when things were scarce, but in an era when things were overflowing, that was more food loss and waste than eating food. I've always wondered what's most valuable in a mature era.

According to the story that the teacher taught me, I was always worried about the "more better" and "different" parts. Even if we extend the part of improving the functions and performance of "more better", it will become a world that cannot be easily understood by human eyes and senses.So, in the end, we have to make a difference, "different".At that time, I had the idea and method of trying to make it better, but I think I wasn't satisfied with how to design by considering the "different" difference.Therefore, I thought that utilizing design for management and brand would be my future theme, so I hit the gate of STRAMD's strategic design.

中西 At that time, I had the intuition that design was needed to remove the dead wall.

(I.e. I agree. No matter how much the technology advances and the contents are improved like "more better", the price competition will end up in the end, or the world will become incomprehensible to people.But on the other hand, when you think about creating a completely different world, it can be creative or creativity.The "designist" that the teacher continues to send out.I realized that I have to become a "designer" instead of a designer, and that Japan needs a designer in the future.We need someone who can create a new world by strategically combining management and design.

中西 You may be asked, "Is the designer different from the designer?", But it's different.As a result, a designer is a person who is involved in the mass (mass production) world, but a "designist" is a person who thinks with a design concept from corporate activities to lifestyle.

I studied at Kuwasawa Design School before going on to university.There are many people older than me, including a 51-year-old classmate.It was a really interesting environment, with some ronin and some running a first-class architect office.Of course, when I'm involved with such people, I have a lot of conversations, but my technique is overwhelmingly better than myself.I couldn't compete with the technique part, so when I thought about something else that I could master, I thought of a design that makes the most of the design, rather than a work-oriented design.However, I realized that it is the company that creates the things that make the most of the design, and that it is the management who makes the decisions.And I thought it was important to involve the managers in the world of design, so I decided to increase the number of "designers" who are designists to "designers".Therefore, I wanted to build a theory in a solid form, and after working at Waseda University and graduate school, I established a company called PAOS.

(I.e. Since I was studying design at graduate school, I could clearly see the difference in what the teacher said.After all, the decision maker and the person who has the discretion of the designer part is, in a sense, a boss or a client.

MBA (Master of Business Administration) has a vision, mission, and management strategy, and under the management strategy, there are personnel strategy, operation strategy, and marketing strategy, and there are products and places in 3P and XNUMXC in the marketing strategy. However, the design finally comes out there.So, in the end, it's just a matter of design between the people in charge.However, in reality, we have to think about design in the part of "management" and "management strategy".Thinking about design at the vision stage was a big shock to me that I needed a designer, not a designer.If you think about design only among designers, you can only get a discount, but if you think about it between managers and bosses, I felt that you can think of a design that creates a new world and "different".

What Japanese designers should face

(I.e. What should future designers, including myself, value in an increasingly mature society?

中西 After all, in everyday life, is it something like "how to find and create joy and fun"?Although there are individual differences, it is a symbol of a mature society that we can afford to think about these things.I think it's getting richer.

(I.e. Is it something like Maslow's theory of desire?Self-actualization is high.

中西 I think that is the case with self-actualization.What is self-actualization depends on the individual.Therefore, self-actualization is not an absolute value, it is not the correct answer.

(I.e. In the learning of STRAMD, when talking about developed countries, underdeveloped countries, and developing countries, when developing countries try to grow, developed countries propose environmental issues.We heard that developing countries feel that they are being selfish because they are talking about environmental issues after destroying the environment with their own growth.I learned that even if you try to tackle environmental problems on a global scale, there are difficult aspects because the background of the times and the growth rate and maturity of each country are different.That is true, but I think that because Japan is a mature country, we must now face such a theme as designers.

中西 It's a world with no correct answer.But I think it's great to be able to think about that.The correct answer is an absolute value such as 2 + 3 = 5, but in the real world, it is not 5 but all 4 to 6 are optimal solutions.No one knows which one is the best.That is why I have no choice but to keep thinking.

(I.e. That leads to the story of "impression" mentioned earlier.

中西 I agree.Therefore, I think that there will be some things that cannot be quantified.It's really hard to read in the world.

Recently, the long-established department store "Matsuya" in Ginza has been in the limelight, and the other day it was broadcast on "Assault! Kaneo-kun" (NHK).Nowadays, companies and local governments are conspicuously investing money in toilets, and when I investigated where it started, Matsuya was the first.And it seems that I got there.The proposal for a toilet to Matsuya was 43 years ago, and although the department stores at that time and today's department stores are quite different, the act of going shopping at a department store is a kind of excitement, and it is still the same as it used to be.When I was asked to save the department store that was about to collapse, I thought it was important to cherish that excitement as much as possible.The place where you can wake up from excitement is "where you are alone".One is a toilet, one is in an elevator, and the other is a fitting room.Try not to be as calm as possible when you are alone.At that time, I was also working on INAX, so I asked both President Yamanaka of Matsuya and President Ina of INAX to cooperate, and the joint project was realized.

Of course, I focused on the toilet because various conditions overlapped.Compared to Westerners, Japanese use the toilet more often.Westerners say that it is about 1 times a day, while Japanese people say that it is about 5 times.The probability of using the toilet is high, let alone the toilet in the department store, which is used for so many purposes that it is not just a place where you can use it.Therefore, it is not a bad thing to design attractively for mature society, and if sales increase by the number of visitors and satisfaction is obtained for shoppers, that is one thing. I think it's a positive economic effect.

(I.e. It's the "receiver's idea, not the sender's idea" that I learned from the teacher.The story of Matsuya tells exactly that.

Even if it is an environmental problem or because it is a mature society now, it is useless if the manufacturer forces something on the consumer side with the idea of ​​a sender.In the end, I interpreted from the current teacher's story that the recipients should design the design so that the consumers will feel comfortable and move in a positive direction in the mature society of the future.

中西 But the hard part is that you can't design a company's business that should be better in the future.After all, I have to think that it will be so good as of tomorrow.I find it difficult to continue with a design that will improve well in the future.It's very difficult to read around that.

(I.e. It's certainly difficult.However, I think it is necessary for future designers, and I would like to devote myself even more.Do you have any important things or advice to keep growing even more than now?

中西 After all, it's about continuing to polish. There is also a theory that "even as people grow older, the cells of creativity continue to grow until they die."I think the reason I've been entrusted with the work for a long time is because I've been honing my emotions.In that sense, I'm really grateful that I was able to live a life where I could make the most of the power I create through design.

(I.e. The teacher is a top runner who has created a path for design and management in this longevity society, which is said to be the age of 100.I hope that you will continue to create and lead the world as a front runner.I would like to continue to improve my abilities and keep thinking so that I will not lose to my teacher.Based on the teacher's story, we will push forward toward the next 20th anniversary.

中西 Please continue to achieve results.

(I.e. I'm really happy that I met 10 years ago and was able to talk like this at the turning point of the 10th year.Thank you very much for today.

▶︎The first part of the dialogueClick hereから


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