WABI-SABI is the Essence of Japan Beauty.

The owner and the deputy chief priest of the temple.Although they are in different positions, they have something in common in their thoughts and beliefs. [Part XNUMX]

Daiko Matsuyama is connected to Taihei Noda, CEO of JBI Group. The manager and the temple vice-principal, who are completely different from each other, have common ideas and beliefs.
Since it was a deep and interesting dialogue from each other's point of view, such as what the "beautiful" of Japanese people is and what kind of way of life and feeling is important, we will deliver it twice, the first part and the second part.This time is the second part.

Myoushinji Hozoin Vice Principal

Daiko Matsuyama

Born in Kyoto in 1978. Completed the Graduate School of Agriculture and Life Sciences, University of Tokyo in 2003. After spending three and a half years as a training student at Heirinji Temple in Niiza City, Saitama Prefecture, he became a Vice Principal of Retirement in 3. He has been highly praised for the dissemination and exchange of Japanese culture, such as planning a tour to introduce Zen experiences to foreigners and giving a number of lectures at foreign reporters' clubs and embassies in various countries. He was appointed as Visit Japan Ambassador in May 2007. To be done. Also, since 2009, Kyoto City “Kyoto Tourism Hospitality Ambassador”. In 5, he was selected as one of the "2011 people to create the next generation" by Nikkei Business magazine, and from that year he became a Fellow of the "Japan-US Leadership Program." Visiting Professor at Kyoto University of Art and Design, Stanford University Visiting Professor since 2016.
In 2011, on behalf of the Zen sect of Japan, had an audience with the former Pope in the Vatican, and in 2014, on behalf of a young Japanese religion, met with the Dalai Lama XIV, and various religious and leaders of the world. Interact with. Attending the Annual General Meeting of the World Economic Forum (Davos Conference), he is active beyond the boundaries of religion in various countries around the world.

Representative Director and CEO of JBI GROUP (JBIG) Co., Ltd.

Taihei Noda

Born in Fukuoka Prefecture in 1979. In 2010P.G.C.D. JAPAN is established. Develop and sell skin care and scalp care products to increase the number of people who change their age into beauty. In 2019, JBI GROUP, a holding company, was established. Under the corporate philosophy "Pay forward", we will create sustainable products and businesses with the mission of "increase the number of people who make the world happy" and contribute to society and the future.

Absolute "beauty" values ​​lost in the information society

What you really need is a sense of "freedom"

Taihei Noda (hereinafter Noda) I feel that the concept of "beauty" has become a relative value these days.In reality, "beauty" should be an absolute value of oneself as well as "happiness", but there are really many people who compare it with others.

In terms of the idea of ​​increasing the numerator or decreasing the denominator, which is one of the ideas of happiness theory that Mr. Matsuyama mentioned before, modern people are just happy to increase the numerator. I wonder if it is.I also have that person, so I want it too.I think that true happiness is to reduce the denominator, and I don't think that it is compared with people for that purpose, but how can it not be compared with people?

Daiko Matsuyama (hereinafter referred to as Matsuyama) I think modern times are more difficult than they used to be.I think the number one reason for comparing yourself with people is the appearance of SNS.It's an environment where you have to make comparisons on a daily basis.Especially, I feel that everyone has lost their happiness in the last 1 or 5 years.

On SNS, I feel that there are many people who only give things that look good or boast, such as "I'm doing this, I'm eating such delicious food."Of course, since they are all human beings, there are many things that can be painful and depressed.I rarely post such things.Therefore, the viewer may be biased and think, "Why aren't I living when those people on SNS live such a glittering life?" ..

(I.e. Despite advances in research and technology, the cosmetics industry has seen an increase in the number of items used per person each year over the last five years.Isn't the times the opposite?It's the exact opposite of what I'm saying to make it simpler and more convenient.In a climate where anti-aging is touted, people are inevitably compared to themselves, so it seems that it is only good to use a lot of cosmetics to make them look youthful.How can you create a situation where you don't have to compare yourself to others?

Matsuyama I think it's a very difficult time not to compare.In modern times, all kinds of things are rated (quantified), so we compare everything.Even restaurants and restaurants are scored on gourmet sites and are quickly ranked.That's why, during this time, when I was looking for a place to take out near Myoshinji Temple, the Retirement Institute came out.If you look closely, you can buy sweets, so it was rated 5th, but I thought that was the case (laughs).

(I.e. That's true (laughs)


Matsuyama After all, it will be rated, so you will compare everything.Among them, I feel that the existence of SNS further promotes the human nature of "comparing oneself with others."So, in that sense, it's difficult not to compare at all.However, Buddhism has been paying attention to it for a long time. There is a word "freedom".Freedom is translated as "Liberty" or "Freedom" in English, but this is a great mistranslation of the Meiji era.Originally, as you read it, it means "because of yourself" in Buddhist language.

(I.e. What does "Yuru" mean?

Matsuyama It means to rely on.

(I.e. To rely on ...

Matsuyama Relying on yourself, that is, "relying on yourself."Because I'm delicious, so it's delicious.It's not delicious because the tabelog score is high.It's interesting because I'm interesting.I don't care about the score of the internet advisor.It's funny because I'm funny, it's delicious because I'm delicious.Therefore, "it depends on myself".

After all, in short, "I'm confident in my sense" and "I wish I was good no matter what others say."However, many people are not confident in their senses, so they rely on the evaluation of others.

However, five senses are needed to improve this sense.At Zen temples and Stanford University in the United States, we are training to sharpen this stem.It's a pure training experience, such as barefoot rags, meditation, and garden cleaning, but the most common impression of the participants was "Is the rice so delicious?"Of course, the training experience is vegetarian food, so the maker's heart is involved, but only vegetables are used, and high-quality ingredients and elaborate seasonings are not used.

Even so, it feels "delicious" because I concentrate on eating.Many people usually eat while talking, watching TV or smartphones while eating.However, the way to eat Zen temple is to correct the residence between the boards and eat only rice without speaking a word.Then, you can enjoy the aroma and sweetness of rice and the richness of miso.Even in zazen, there are many people who say, "I just think about things that can't be helped and I can't concentrate at all." That's natural.

(I.e. It is certainly so.There are many times when you are thinking about things that you can't help thinking about.

Matsuyama When we live casually, we don't even realize that we are always thinking about something that can't be helped.For example, if you meditation here, stop and spend quietly, you should hear the sound of the waterfall and the chirping of birds there.Actually, I usually hear it, but the human brain is so good that it cancels everything as noise.All the scents and sounds that were actually felt are blurred and I can't feel them.However, for each person, if the five senses are solid, it will lead to confidence that "I am like this, so this is fine".


(I.e. How should the five senses be trained?

Matsuyama You have to do it yourself.There is a Zen word "cool and warm self-knowledge". "Knowing cold and warm by yourself".Since today is an information-oriented society, many people are interested in experiencing it just by getting information.

For example, in the place where we are now, the temperature is about 25 degrees Celsius and it feels so comfortable, but the coldness when we put 25 degrees of water on our head is completely different.The feel of the trees outside at the same temperature is also different. Even if you only know the temperature of 25 degrees, the air of 25 degrees, the feel of 25 degrees, and the coldness of water of 25 degrees are completely different.

I think that many modern people lack this reality.Accumulating experience on your own may lead to "depending on yourself," that is, true "freedom."

The spirit of "really?" That modern people lack

(I.e. We operate with a BtoC business style of selling things directly to our customers, but the most important thing we have always done is "sell only what you really think your skin is delicious."In fact, they go to a factory in France to see their soap bubbles and enjoy the scent.There may be a lot of different soaps out there, but to keep saying, "This is the best thing in the world!", Innovation isn't about increasing things, it's about simplifying them. Continues to show.

As I mentioned earlier, our soap is manufactured in a factory in France, but we develop our products in-house.When a good ingredient is born, we will make a prototype, but we will continue to challenge until we can say that it is the best.Unless you can say "this is the best product in the world" as a representative of the company, we cannot deliver it to our customers.

Matsuyama That way of thinking is very important.I feel that I am trying to get too much mass in every field, such as Japanese manufacturers and restaurants these days.In manufacturing, the confidence that "I like this" is decisive.

If you compare it to a restaurant, the food prepared based on the data is not delicious.When you try to create a new menu, most people do market research.In the normal distribution of the collected data, the one with the highest numerical value is taken.The result is a "not tasty" menu.However, a really delicious restaurant never does that.It's delicious because the owner himself goes to various stores, researches and prototypes, and provides the best ones that he thinks "good".As Mr. Noda said, I think that there are really few managers and companies that have the motive of "doing this because I think I am the best".

(I.e. That is the true "self", not a comparison with others.How can we increase the number of people who understand these differences and who are free?

Matsuyama There aren't many people who know what's really good, but if you can't reach someone who understands it, your business, stores, and services won't last long.Some people will know it by word of mouth, others will be attracted to the personality of the manager, and I think that it will spread by gathering people who understand it. Isn't it the key to "get together gradually"?

(I.e. What kind of education should be given to children so that they can choose what is really good?

Matsuyama Anyway, it's important to take care of yourself, "Are you sure?" And "Did you do that?" Myoshinji 80th Tokai Daimitsu Roshi, who came to Kyoto from Kyushu at the age of 677, was the person who embodied this "real?"I used to live without a TV for a long time, but one day I saw a child who was eating popcorn and said, "What's that? Let me eat it."The old master, who liked the taste, sent his attendant's apprentice to buy it and said, "Take out the beans from this popcorn and grow them." "If you do it normally (because it's soaked in oil), the seeds will die, so put it in the bath, dissolve the oil lightly, peel it off, wash it with a neutral detergent, and make the soil properly and bury it." When I was instructed to do so, what a sprout came out.

(I.e. Were you alive! ??Seeds.

Matsuyama That's right.When I heard that I could really get popcorn from there, I was impressed that the old master was amazing, and he was a Zen priest.Because ordinary people don't think that way, and even if they do, they wouldn't really try it.Since all modern people are smart, there are many people who do nothing by deciding that "whatever it is" or "it is decided".However, although it may be a primitive method to actually try it, in the end it will teach you something important.I think that modern people lack this spirit of "really?"

"I'm fine with this", "beauty" named freedom

Opportunity to shift to new values

(I.e. weP.G.C.D.The customers are all "free" people who have their own self, saying "I am me" and "I am fine with this".However, some older customers say, "I wonder if all the simple items are a problem."We want to say, "Aging (time) is not afraid" and "It's okay."In the future, I would like to communicate with our customers.

Matsuyama The beauty of a person is not determined by the so-called luster of the skin, but by the way of life and atmosphere.I realized that when I entered the training dojo.I was a theory-first person until college, so I was very dissatisfied with the way the dojo was done.

For example, when eating, there is a person in charge of serving rice, but people who are below the first and second years do it.They are yelled at no matter what they do.For example, the decoration on the chest is bent, or the fingers of the hand that I extended to serve rice are slightly open.Even trivial movements and abstract and obscure things can get angry. I wasn't convinced, "Why don't you do this? If you eat delicious food normally," I wasn't convinced, but after a couple of years of training, it was better than a good new monk. The senior monks who have been yelling at me are completely different in how they bow, the footsteps in the corridor, and the opening and closing of the sliding doors.In any case, the behavior will be very beautiful.


(I.e. Why?

Matsuyama After all, the basic pattern is important, and it keeps being told, so that's what happens.Mumon Yamada, a 639th master of Myoshinji Temple, was a small person with a height of about 150 centimeters, but when he appeared in public as a religionist, the place calmed down.This is what the aura does.Such an aura cannot be said logically, but it can be said that it is one of the humanities that I have acquired while maintaining a beautiful pattern through daily training.Perhaps the beauty of people is the same.Even if you pretend to be just the appearance, it will not leave an impression unless the person's speaking style, posture, and inside are beautiful.For example, a singer who is very good at singing is different from a person who stays in your head for a long time.I'm sure that kind of thing is oozing out.

(I.e. I really sympathize with you.I don't think beauty is defined.The beauty of Japan is the beauty that leaves only the essence.There are various backgrounds to beauty, such as beauty that arrives over time like wabi-sabi, and beauty that is created by the person's daily habits.

On the contrary, there is a word "dirty" which is the opposite of "beautiful", but "dirty" is a stain that escapes from the real thing and the essence and is a mixture of various things. Isn't it a peculiarity?In that sense, "Beautiful" in Japanese is completely different from "Beautiful" in English, and I think it is a word with a Japanese timeline.

Matsuyama P.G.C.D.The loyal users are confident that "I'm okay with this," and I think they have decided on their own how to spend their time and their choices in life.I think that will lead to overall beauty.

I'm often asked, "Mr. Matsuyama is doing so many things. Why can you do so many things?"I don't have that kind of consciousness at all, but I think it's kind of natural.The reason is that if you compare me with an office lady who commute for 1 hour, first of all, in my case, it takes 30 seconds to get up and work, so the commuting time is short.And you don't need makeup and you don't have to dry your hair with a hair dryer.Then, I get about 1 hours a day from the office lady.It is said that the time required to learn a single language is approximately 3 hours. If you calculate with 1000 days x 365 hours, you can learn one language in one year.Thinking that way, I think you can do various things.

For hair washing and face washing, it may be a short time of about 1 minutes in a day just by changing to your company's soap, but there is a tremendous time difference throughout the year, and there are other things you can do in that time. I think there will be.I think that such a small thing will probably lead to beauty.

(I.e. I agree.As I mentioned earlier, it is important to have the courage to become independent without comparing yourself with others, because it is an era in which it is easy to compare everything in the information-oriented society. right.I really want Japanese people to know and learn about such things.


Matsuyama In that sense, it's an opportunity now.Looking back on the history of Japan, many great monks appeared in times of extreme turmoil, such as the Kamakura period, when natural disasters continued.The same goes for Shinran, who gave birth to the Jodo Shinshu sect, Nichiren, who gave birth to the Nichiren sect, and Rinzai sect.This is because people's values ​​have changed significantly due to the national crisis.

We may have experienced self-restraint and wondered, "Is that really the case?" What has been considered correct. "I used to make up for 30 minutes every morning, but it's teleworking and I should just draw the eyebrows" (laughs).In the first place, it's an era when it's easy to discuss.

(I.e. It's easy to argue in the first place.It means going back to the essence and origin of things and confirming the necessity and significance of existence.It's just "Is it true?"

Matsuyama Therefore, I think it is a very good opportunity to think about what "beauty" is and what "happiness" is, and to review the rigid values.

(I.e. I agree.I want to think about it together.That is the true "freedom", isn't it?Thank you for your fulfilling time today.

▶︎The first part of the dialogueClick hereから


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