Simple is innovation. With true simplicity?
Designer Taku Sato and JBIG's Taihei Noda talked about "what is really simple?" [Part XNUMX]
The two parts, the first part and the second part, were deeply and interestingly discussed from the viewpoints of manufacturing and human senses on the theme of the definition and design of "beautiful" that the two people think. We will deliver. This time is the second part.
Chairman of TSDO Co., Ltd.
Graduated from Tokyo University of the Arts in 1979 with a degree in design, and completed the graduate course in 1981. After working at Dentsu Inc., established Sato Taku Design Office (now TSDO) in 1984.
Representative works include "Lotte Xylitol Gum" "Meiji Delicious Milk" package design, "PLEATS PLEASE ISSEY MIYAKE" graphic design, "21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art, Kanazawa" and "National Science Museum" logo. In addition, he is the art director of NHK E-tele "Nihongo de Asobo", general guidance of "Design a", director of 21_21 DESIGN SIGHT, and plans and holds many exhibitions. Author of "Plastic Thoughts" etc.
Representative Director and CEO of JBI GROUP Inc. (JBIG)
Ltd.P.G.C.D. JAPAN CEO
Born in Fukuoka Prefecture in 1979. In 2010P.G.C.D. JAPAN is established. Develop and sell skin care and scalp care products to increase the number of people who change their age into beauty. In 2019, JBI GROUP, a holding company, was established. Under the corporate philosophy "Pay forward", we will create sustainable products and businesses with the mission of "increase the number of people who make the world happy" and contribute to society and the future.
Create a "special relationship" between customers and products.
Attachment that comes from the idea of "cherishing".
Taihei Noda (hereinafter Noda) When I asked for the product design of "Rosion Eclat (Triple Essence Beauty Essence)" (hereinafter, Eclat), I wanted to use simple and long-life products, minimally-used products, and more products that can be used continuously. became.
Taku Sato (hereinafter Sato) Usually, in the case of lotions of basic cosmetics, for example, those of the method of exchanging the contents or those of reusable materials are often discarded. It is difficult to clean the inside of the bottle every time it is refilled. HoweverP.G.C.D.There is a unique solution,P.G.C.D.I thought it should be something that makes me feel like a unique proposal. After all, the way of course isP.G.C.D.Should not be selected.
(I.e. In particular, Eclat bottles are made of glass, which was considered a taboo for basic cosmetics containers. Moreover, I wanted to style the refill instead of refilling the bulk, so it took a lot of time and effort.
Sato When I proposed it, I didn't think it was that hard. First, it is difficult to cut the bottom of a tubular glass bottle straight. It is difficult to combine glass, which can be called a craft, with the bottom lid, which is an industrial product. Refilling the refill should not be a heavy burden for the user, so I repeated the fine adjustments.
(I.e. Finding a manufacturer has never been easier. Do not turn around with dozens of companies. In the end, I finally met a factory that said, "I want to try." There are only two factories in Japan that have the technology to make Eclat bottles. I don't think there are many things you can do in the world. Eclat bottles are a fusion of industrial and craft products. I think it is because Japan is able to make these kinds of things.
Sato That's something that big companies can't do.
(I.e. I dared to select glass because it has the fragility of "breaking when dropped." One of our customers said, "The moment I touched it, I left it because it was glass, but I thought this company wanted to convey this." The feeling of "cherishing" is born because it breaks. So I was very hungry that Eclat bottles should be glass. I love the things I cherish, and I use them every day because I use them everyday, so I think that glass is very important in order to be used as my important partner for a long time.
Sato There is such a value casually. Perhaps I feel that the customers who are using it can feel it even if they do not understand the reason. It becomes a "special" relationship for me. I would like to create such a special relationship that makes me feel that I am different from others without realizing it.
(I.e. Really so. Even with soap, the message is transmitted to customers and they say, "It's already a part of my body." It's soap! There are many ways to buy for 100 yen, but what I can say is "attachment" that was born from the timeframe of making beautiful things. If this isn't simple, you can't do it. It takes a lot of time and effort to finish, and it is not possible to get things with many decorations. I don't think it's "real simple" without human intervention.
Sato It's great that people who use our products love that much. After all,P.G.C.D. Japan's products have good contents, right? Probably there are many repeaters because soap is also wonderful. Even in the case of Eclat, the harmony is born because the contents and design echo. Product design lives because it is the only beauty liquid.
Design is, in extreme terms, a "lie". Dress it up and decorate it. It's sometimes misunderstood as "design = dressing up," but I think design is a job that connects the contents with the user. So if the contents are special, the design is also special. Even if the contents are normal, even if the design is special, it will not be suitable and it will soon be revealed. For example,P.G.C.D. As with Japan, products with a simple concept have different designs if their essential messages are different.
Make the time to grow your own hair worthwhile.
(I.e. Scalp Care Soap “Savon Move” (Move), which was launched in 2014, is also being developed for four years.P.G.C.D. In Japan, I've always wanted to create a world of scalp care. I thought about liquid shampoo, but after all, I returned to the origin and arrived at soap. It looks fresh to the customer, but people used to wash their hair with soap. Actually, it seems that shampoo is scary for older people. She says she can't wash her hair every day because she is scared of shedding her hair.
Sato Maybe I feel it's not good for my scalp.
(I.e. It seems that such customers will think "This is it!" When they see the mauve.I wanted to be able to wash my hair every day and not be afraid to wash my hair, but I didn't think it was soap that gave it to me.
Sato This is the first experience for young people, and I think it feels nostalgic for people of the Mrs. generation and above.There should be a sense of security as the old acts have been reborn.I think it offers a fresh experience for each age group.Furthermore, this purple has an image that slowly soaks into it.
(I.e. The effect of color is enormous, isn't it?The color of this mauve is very popular with customers, and they often say, "I like this color."This purple isP.G.C.D.He created the scalp world view.
Sato For mass-produced products, such purple colors are rarely selected.P.G.C.D. JAPAN has its own world view, and the contents are special, so I didn't want to choose a general color. If you choose normal,P.G.C.D. It will not be JAPAN.
(I.e. Similarly, the scalp care item "Quintessence (hair growth serum)" is also a product that is truly unique in combination with the product design.When it hits the scalp, the beauty essence soaks in from the 6 nozzles.There is no other.
Sato If you show it to people all over the world, you'll be surprised at what this is (laughs).I wanted to make it have a mysterious presence, like marine life or unknown creatures from space.Still, it's like feeling the future.I wanted to create a world view that was different from the so-called hair restorer.
(I.e. Mauve and Quintessence have the desire to make the time to grow their hair joyful and irreplaceable.There is still a negative image of hair restorers, and many people think that they don't want people to know that they are using them and that they are embarrassed.That's why I wanted to make the product look charming in the mirror. There is a customer who says, "The moment the quintessence soaks into the scalp, it feels like it's giving life," and when you hear that story, it makes sense for us to do it as well. I feel that.
However, it was difficult for Kantesans to find a manufacturing company, and most of them were refused.
Sato This cubic curve is surprisingly difficult.
(I.e. It is a refill, and the mechanism that the beauty essence flows out from the 6 legs is also difficult.That's why you can't refuse at first.Starting from there, I searched for various things and finally managed to say, "Would you like to proceed for the time being?"
Sato Ordinary companies never do that.HoweverP.G.C.D.JAPAN loves it and tries to shape it. Without it, things like this would never have been born.
(I.e. As was the case with Eclat, when I was told that manufacturing was technically difficult, I always talked about "why should this design be used?" "Do you know the user's facial expression when using a hair restorer? Everyone, I use it to hide while feeling somehow guilty. Quintessence is openly confronting myself through the mirror and the future I want you to use it with a smile while drawing. "
Sato Even if 8% of companies say that it is impossible, there are always companies that want to do difficult things.They like their thoughts and concepts and try to put them into shape.
(I.e. That's right.When I talked about my thoughts on Quintessence, an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) company said, "Let's try it" and "I've never felt so excited since the company was founded."P.G.C.D. When I believed that the products of JAPAN could be one of the happiness of people and society, I felt that things would proceed. We are supported by such people, and we carry the thoughts of those who cooperate with us. It was a feeling that I was tight.
Sato Simple things are hard because they can't be deceived.But when I got over it, something that was unlikely ...
(I.e. I can see it.
Sato After all, there are things that you can't understand until you try it, and when you try it and go there, there is a new way to look.But I can't do it before I go there, or when I research it, it doesn't have a good reputation ...Actually, the senses are very important, and if you chase after the theory or numbers, you should never be there. "I don't know, but let's try this."That's what Mr. Noda has, so it's a great pleasure to develop something like this together.If you don't have the energy or power to go with us, Japanese manufacturing will be ruined.
(I.e. The expectations that customers are saying are the expectations that they have met somewhere and what they have seen.So, I can't tell what I haven't seen, and I can't say I want something I haven't seen.
True simplicity shows a way of life.
Good things are born when intuition echoes.
(I.e. Mr. Taku always makes some product design proposals, so I'm looking forward to seeing them all until the end.But at the time of Quintessence, the moment I saw it on the way, I suddenly stood up and asked for a handshake, saying, "This is the best!"
Sato I'm always excited about where Mr. Noda reacts, and I'm looking forward to it.As long as you come up with a planP.G.C.D. We are proposing something that is unique to Japan. But I do not recommend it. If I say it, my own remarks will have power.
(I.e. The moment I saw it, the scene that the customer was using came to my mind, and I felt that the silhouette was unique.
Sato Mr. Noda values intuition for design.I'm very happy and that's very important.There are many people in the world who can't do that.There are many people who think "this is good" but are not confident because they are scared of the reaction of others and the world.These people seem to neglect their senses.Reasoning is also important in some cases.However, there are people who can't believe their feelings because they can't understand "good" or "bad" unless everything is made into logic or data.That is a big problem.Humans accept the senses in a complicated way, including the five senses, but they do not make good use of those senses.I think that in a society where people's original feelings are more utilized, they will become richer, more comfortable and more enjoyable.When I think about design, I value my senses, and when my intuition resonates, energy beyond reason is born there.Many people can't do that easily.
(I.e. What I learned from my father when I was a student, I have always remembered it. "The source of creatives is the idea that came to my mind. I have to cherish it myself." It's a difficult subject, but I think we must not neglect our efforts to continue thinking day by day in order to create something that is intrinsically valuable.
Sato I'm sure my father was giving Mr. Noda something good.If you know the good things, you will understand the bad things.If you don't know good things, you can never make good things.Mr. Noda has criteria for judging "good" and "bad", so you can intuitively think "this is good".The theory should be considered later.It's very important that you think so.That's great.
True simplicity is all about everything.
(I.e. I think "true simplicity" is the act of choosing something and not choosing something.Choosing simple means throwing away things that aren't simple.I think it's close to a declaration of values, way of life, and what you want to cherish.I don't think simple is one.In a sense, the values of people's way of life, or the ones that show the direction, are really simple.I was hoping that our brand would be like that.
Sato There was a time when simple was a trend a while back.At that time, many people misunderstood that "simple = just remove anything", and there was a time when I felt a sense of crisis.I think that true simplicity is "it looks simple, but it contains everything that is important."It looks easy and simple, but it's all in it.
(I.e. The same is true for our products.
Sato Yes Yes.
(I.e. It takes four years to stuff it and make it.
Sato I don't think that everything in the world should be simple, but what should be simple is the image that by being simple, the relative relationship with decorative things becomes beautiful. I have.
(I.e. Finally, the futureP.G.C.D. What do you expect from JAPAN?
Sato I can't imagine that.
Sato The reason is that I want to go to a place I haven't been to yet.As beforeP.G.C.D. I'd like to get a chance from Japan and look for something that no one has done yet. I want to go to a world I have never seen. It's fun because Mr. Noda doesn't know where to go.
(I.e. What if I can't come back (laughs)?Let's continue our journey together forever.Thank you very much.
▶︎The first part of the dialogueClick hereから